How to Start Your Side Hustle (with Tracey Minutolo)


On today’s episode I am joined by Tracey Minutolo. We will be talking about how she coaches and helps others in addition to her knowledge and advice around starting a side hustle and succeeding in her business.

Tracey is about 4 ½ years in her side hustle journey. Right now she works primarily with individuals who work a 9 -5 and want to start something on the side. The people she tends to work with want to do something more than just earn a paycheck, they want to do something that aligns with their purpose. Tracey has a side hustle for side hustlers.

Covered Topics

  • How Tracey got to where she is today
  • Being a part of something that is bigger than yourself
  • What motivated Tracey to start something on the side
  • Determining why it is you really want to start a side hustle
  • Graduating from a hobby to a side hustle
  • Getting started with a side hustle
  • Determining a price for your product or service
  • There are tiers for everything

Link and Resources


Call or text 212-401-2990 if you’d like to work with Anthony (or any of our guests).

Full Transcript

ANTHONY: Hey, everyone. We talk a lot about side hustles, but I want to make sure that you all understand that doesn’t necessarily mean developing your hobby to a side business to the next big thing. It doesn’t have to be so zero-sum. It’s totally possible, and in many cases preferable, I would say, to maintain your wonderful career, your nine-to-five job, because that’s your security, that’s your main bread and butter, but to also pursue side interests, and secondary income sources as much for enjoyment as for secondary income. With that in mind, I’ve invited on a great guest. Her name is Tracey Minutolo. Did I get that right, Tracey?

Tracey: Yeah, you did on the first shot.

ANTHONY: All right, nice.

Tracey: Good job.

ANTHONY: Thanks for joining us, Tracey.

Tracey: Yeah, thanks for having me.

ANTHONY: Cool, so first we’re gonna hear about Tracey’s personal story, and her journey towards this type of side hustle, and also talk about how she coaches and helps others to sort of emulate what she’s been able to do. Is that about right, Tracey?

Tracey: Yeah, that sounds great.

ANTHONY: Cool, so can we start off talking a little bit about you. I like to start off with what you’re up to now, and then I like to go, you know, rewind and how you got to there, so that folks know where it’s all leading towards. Does that make sense?

Tracey: Yeah, yeah, that’s perfect.


Tracey: So I’m actually about four, 4-1/2 years or so into my own side hustle journey, only been coaching for about the last 2-1/2 years of that, so I guess we can sort of touch on what I was doing prior to that because it’s important. It’s an important part of my journey. It’s what actually led me to coaching, so, but right now I’m working with primarily nine-to-fivers, and I say primarily because there are some folks that come to me who maybe they’re stay-at-home moms who want to get a side business going. They want to get a business going, and they want to put in side business hours, so not the 40 hours a week necessarily.


Tracey: But, primarily, nine-to-fivers who want to start something on the side. Generally, the folks that I tend to work with, and the ones that really, I guess, my message resonates with them are folks that want to do something in their purpose. They want to do something about more than just earning additional money, so it’s really about way more than that. The folks that I tend to work with are service based side hustlers, so they’re doing something whether it’s freelancing, maybe it’s coaching, it’s just something related to taking a skill, or a passion, or a talent that they have, and putting that out into the world, and serving folks through that, but it’s something that’s deeply meaningful to them.

ANTHONY: Well, can you give us some examples? Are we talking about like social type ventures like environmental or not-for-profit? Can you give us some examples?

Tracey: Yeah, up to this point it’s primarily been other coaches, and freelancers that work with other coaches behind the scenes supporting things that they really believe in, so it’s about being a part of something that’s bigger than themselves, so, yeah. Primarily, I would say I work with a lot of other coaches.

ANTHONY: Cool, cool, very good.

Tracey: So I work with folks in a couple of different capacities. One-to-one coaching, your traditional one-to-one coaching over like Zoom or Skype. I also do group programs, and that is primarily geared towards folks who are just getting that first side hustle off the ground. They’re looking to get their first couple of clients, and then more recently I’ve moved toward a really kind of an interesting platform. I don’t know if your audience has heard of

ANTHONY: No, I don’t think so.

Tracey: Yeah, yeah, it’s a habit tracking app, actually, so anybody can use it and it’s totally free. It’s one of the those things where you want to track how often you’re doing a certain habit, so if you’re looking to maybe exercise daily you could check into the app and do your little check in, and then you’re building these chains, like the Seinfeld method you don’t want to break the chain keep that habit going. That’s the kind of, I guess, I don’t know, the base of the platform that really kind of brings people in that’s how most people find it, but there are coaches available on to help you, so what I’ve actually done is I’ve taken what I consider to be some of the like keystone habits that side hustlers need in order to be successful, and I’ve broken those up into these perfect little habit coaching packages, so if you’re a side hustler and you’re coming to me, and you’re like I’m just getting this thing going, and I realized I need to wake up earlier, I can work with you on that, and it’s just waking up earlier, and it’s very, very affordable. So that’s the latest thing that I’m working on.

ANTHONY: Well, let’s keep it on you for a moment. Can we talk about what is your nine-to-five, and how you’re able to squeeze all this in, in addition to your regular career?

Tracey: Yeah, absolutely, so I’m a microbiologist by training, and for most of my career I’ve been behind the bench in the lab in the lab coat, and for different types of companies, but mostly in biotech and more recently… Well, I should say, too, I’ve had a side passion all along. I don’t know how many of your audience is familiar with Lean manufacturing. It usually goes hand-in-hand with like Lean Six Sigma, but Lean is its own separate thing, and basically what it is is a process improvement methodology, and it’s aimed at continuous improvement, and removing waste from our process, streamlining and improving things, which, basically, at the end of the day adds up to more for the bottom line, of course.


Tracey: But it’s also a great way to get folks engaged, allow people to take ownership, and have a voice in what they do on a day-to-day basis, makes people’s jobs safer, easier, and it’s just awesome, so it’s been a passion of mine, and it’s kind of something that I’ve been doing as sort of an additional thing on top of my lab job all these years, but more recently I’ve moved into a full-time role doing process improvement, right now a project manager.

ANTHONY: Is that Lean structure specific towards biological sciences, or is that more of a business philosophy kind of thing?

Tracey: Yep, it’s a business philosophy. It was actually pioneered by Toyota.

ANTHONY: Got you.

Tracey: Yep.

ANTHONY: Oh, cool.

Tracey: So that’s what I do now, so I’m working really closely with the manufacturing teams to streamline their processes, improve the organization of their workspace, all kinds of things around that, measuring daily production metrics, and looking at those, analyzing those, and basically spotting out opportunities for improvement, and just all kinds of things around that, but that is, basically, I don’t know, I guess, it was a long time in the making. I had been wanting to get off the bench for quite a while, hang the lab coat up and this came about, and I’m super excited about it.

ANTHONY: It sounds like your nine-to-five career is very exciting, actually.

Tracey: Yeah, and you know what I find is it just depends on to a degree it’s like you really just need to know in yourself, you need to know yourself, and you need to know what types of environments, what types of opportunities light you up, and where you’re headed, so it’s like you need to take a look at everything, and look at the big picture, and spot those opportunities and get involved, and if you can extend yourself beyond what’s in your job description you can look for those additional opportunities, it’s amazing what can happen.

ANTHONY: So, I mean, just reading your tone of voice, and the enthusiasm with which you’re describing your career you sound very happy and very fulfilled. My question is what motivated you or led you to begin pursuing other things on the side?

Tracey: Yeah, so I’ve always been doing other things on the side. I’m just one of those folks that kind of can’t sit still, so even when I had my first job out of college I had part-time jobs and I was, you know, because I always felt that you have your day job, and that kind of satisfies one set of, I don’t know, I don’t know, things or requirements.

ANTHONY: Sure, sure.

Tracey: Sure, it’s the paycheck, and the health insurance is great and all of that, and for most folks if you can get into a place that kind of is exciting and lights you up, and you can do great work that’s great, but we’re really multi-dimensional creatures. I don’t necessarily think that any one singular opportunity can fulfill all of it. I think that there’s a lot going on within our brains and our hearts, and I think a side hustle is just one other way to explore that, and it’s also a way to earn your first money outside of a paycheck, which is really exciting, and it’s a great way to feel in a world that can sometimes feel very unpredictable, and very crazy, and a little bit stressful and scary, it’s a great way to know, hey, if something happens tomorrow with my day job I might be okay because I can earn money outside of that paycheck.

ANTHONY: Definitely. Tracey, where do you live? You’re in the West Coast I know, but where exactly?

Tracey: Yeah, I’m in San Diego.

ANTHONY: So as you know we’re talking to an audience of mostly Greater New York area folks where for the most part the job hours can be pretty demanding here.

Tracey: Yep.

ANTHONY: So I guess my question to you is what are your hours like? How many hours are you typically in your office for your career job, and are you able to give concrete advice to folks who are maybe in the office 60, maybe 70 hours a week, yeah?

Tracey: Yeah, I definitely can. First of all, I’m actually from the East Coast originally, so I totally get it.

ANTHONY: Nice, nice.

Tracey: I spend a lot of time in New York, but, yeah, so for me especially now that I’m out of the lab my job is a little less crazy and a little less demanding than it was previous, so I am working about 40 hours a week right now, but I can relate to the folks that are putting in 50, 60 hours.


Tracey: Yes, I think what it really comes down to, first of all, is really understanding why it is you want to start the side hustle. Is it really about additional money, or is it about something else? I think understanding that when you start a business, and you’re doing it on a very, very part-time basis your timeline is not gonna look the same as somebody who is a full-time entrepreneur, full-time business owner.


Tracey: It’s definitely gonna be a longer timeline, and you have to be okay with that, so if you are able to put in 10 hours a week that’s what I usually tell my clients. I usually say that 10 hours a week is about the minimum that I would recommend at least for the types of businesses that I, kind of in my sweet spot, the service based businesses that I was talking about, 10 hours a week is really good. If you can put more in that’s great, but you can usually do that, you can get something off the ground, get it running, get it sustainable, but the thing is like I say if you’re looking to hit a certain income level, if you’re looking to get to a certain point you have to be realistic with yourself, you have to be honest as far as what you’re able to put in without burning out, without really driving yourself nuts because in my mind and in my world a side hustle shouldn’t be something that like stresses you out, drives you crazy, and makes you sick, and makes you lose your friends, and ruins your relationships, it really shouldn’t be.

ANTHONY: Of course.

Tracey: It needs to be something fun and enjoyable, something that lights you up. It’s something that fits within the bigger context of your life, and where you want to go.

ANTHONY: So you mentioned 10 hours per week. I tend to latch onto metrics so just forgive me for that. When do you advise like what’s the tipping point from graduating from a hobby to a side hustle if that question makes sense?

Tracey: So I would just say when you start earning income when somebody pays you for what you’re putting out there into the world then it’s not a hobby anymore, you’re getting paid that’s a business.

ANTHONY: Cool, I mean, yeah.

Tracey: So, of course, on the other side… Oh, I’m sorry, go ahead.

ANTHONY: No, no, no, I was chuckling in agreement.

Tracey: Yeah, I mean, on the other side of the equation if you’ve got one client say you’re like a freelance web developer and you’ve got one client, and you’re maybe earning $500 a month or something like that just, I don’t know, just off-the-cuff here.


Tracey: You don’t want to be spending $1,000 a month on the business getting all the bells and whistles with tons of subscription services because there’s a lot of ways to spend money I’m sure you know.


Tracey: In this space, especially, if you’re into buying courses, and developing yourself you could spend a lot of money really, really quickly.


Tracey: So that to me is kind of the danger zone that’s a pitfall that a lot of us, myself included, can fall into because it’s like, well, I need this and I need that. I would really encourage folks to look at it in terms of just in time education. Don’t buy those courses for some day later like really, really have a good reason, a solid reason for what you need right now, and that’s the money to spend, but, yes, sorry, it’s a long-winded answer to your question, but, yes, earning money takes it from the hobby to a business.

ANTHONY: You know, you touched on something that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. It seems like there’s a whole category of services and products that are pitched or sold to us with the notion that we’ll make more money with them later be it a video camera for a YouTube channel, or like you said courses for side businesses. You’re right, you can get really sucked into a shopping spree for these kinds of things.

Tracey: You can, and you can think, it’s easy to think, especially, if somebody, you know, if you’re susceptible like most of us are.

ANTHONY: Sure, sure.

Tracey: To really well-written sales copy you can totally get sucked in, yeah, and it’s not for anybody to feel bad I’ve done it, too. It’s just that it’s important to realize when you’re first getting started you don’t need to go spend a ton of money on Facebook ads. You don’t need to go buy the best of the best of the best. You just need to get started, really, that’s what it’s about.

ANTHONY: Seriously, I was this close to clicking for some insane Retina camera to test out a YouTube concept, and I’m looking at my phone I’m like, why don’t I just use my phone? What is wrong with me? Yeah, so I’ve been there as well. Okay, so let’s start getting to some nitty-gritty for folks who are listening and thinking, okay, quote, okay, I get it, I’m interested. So if we have somebody who has a nine-to-five job who is in middle late career, so they’ve developed a lot of skills in, I don’t know, compensation benefits, or something that might not immediately seem like it can be transferred to a side hustle. I’m sorry, do you necessarily suggest that folks leverage their nine-to-five skills for their side hustles, or can and should it be something completely different?

Tracey: Oh, yeah, not at all. That was one of the things that kind of tripped me up when I first started looking for what I was gonna do for my first side hustle. I was hung up on this fact that I’m a microbiologist how am I gonna do that on the side, you know. I think, you know, everybody is different, but I think it’s way more than that, especially, when we’re talking about your side hustle fulfilling something for you on another level, something beyond what your day job, or just different than what your day job is providing for you I think it’s really important to look at yourself. Take kind of a bird’s-eye view of yourself, and all of the different things that make you you, and what’s exciting to you and what lights you up, and see where those possibilities are. No, it definitely does not have to just be tied to what you do for your full-time job.

ANTHONY: Do you help folks at that level? Do folks come to you and say, hey, Tracey, can you help me figure out what I should be pursuing on the side, or do you usually help people… So, yeah, go ahead.

Tracey: Yes, and if folks are just stuck like kind of like I was. I really just didn’t even see what other skills I had that I wanted to use for a side business. I usually start with a little bit of brainstorming because generally people have a few ideas even if they seem crazy, so that brainstorming is important to get that out, but I also ask people to turn to the folks in their lives that are closest to them, but also former co-workers, or current co-workers if that’s okay because some people are really weird about talking about side business stuff with their day job.

ANTHONY: Sure, sure.

Tracey: There’s an exercise that I usually run through with folks, and I have them find five people, and like I said, it could be friends, family, co-workers, colleagues, just people that know you and know your work, and ask them two questions. The first question is what would you completely trust me to help you with?

ANTHONY: This is great, yeah.

Tracey: Yeah, and number two would be what would you say are my greatest strengths? Usually out of that exercise if you do it with the five people, and if you can reach out to more it’s better, generally, I say don’t ask somebody like in person, and have them answer you on the spot that’s not conducive to getting the best answers. I would say send a text message or an email or something, and let the person kind of ruminate on it, and give you a more in depth answer back, but, usually, you can get a couple of common themes developing through that, so if you’ve got a couple of answers that it’s like, hey, you’re really passionate about websites. I always come to you for websites, and you just tend to know a lot about text stuff, or whatever it is like there could be a couple of threads that you could pick up there, dig a little deeper, and see how that translates into something that somebody will pay you for.

ANTHONY: Let’s take you as an example is there a risk that everyone will come back and say, oh, I’ll come to you for microbiology questions?

Tracey: I know, right.

ANTHONY: Like what was the point of that?

Tracey: Yeah, well, that’s why it’s really valuable to ask people from different areas of your life, so people that know you in a professional capacity, great, yeah, because they might be able to point out certain things about your work, and the types of things that make you excel on a team at work, but, also, your friends and your family like maybe throughout the course of your life maybe your sisters, brothers say, you know, you’ve always been really, really good at making things, or teaching people how to make things. It could be anything.

ANTHONY: I really love that approach. I think it bears repeating. So you get five, or hopefully even more, 10 of your friends, or people who know you well, and you ask them two questions the first one is… Oh, I’m sorry, could you repeat it for me because I want to get it right, yeah.

Tracey: Of course, yeah, what would you completely trust me to help you with? So, completely, like what is something that I can help you with?

ANTHONY: Love it.

Tracey: Then the second thing is what would you say are my greatest strengths?

ANTHONY: I like how you specifically said do this by text or email because face-to-face could get kind of awkward for a few moments there, yeah?

Tracey: Yeah, you want somebody to have a few minutes to sit with that a little bit, and really think about it, and you want them to have the space to, basically, give you a thorough answer because that’s gonna be more valuable to you.

ANTHONY: Okay, cool, I think that’s really great, by the way. Okay, so you’ve, I guess, collated the data, you’ve sussed out from the various responses that, oh, here are two or three things that are maybe worth pursuing, what’s the next step from there?

Tracey: Yeah, so the next step at that point is to start researching what’s out there existing in the market that you could kind of use as sort of a benchmark just to see like is this thing going to actually pay me what I’m looking to earn, and you should really have at least a ballpark idea of what you’re looking to earn with your side hustle for the amount of time that you want to put in because that’s really, really important.


Tracey: So many folks head off and myself included, with my first side hustle, head off down the road just excited to be doing side hustle stuff, and then you realize I’m putting in so much time, and not really earning what I thought I was gonna be earning, so that’s really, really important is to take a look at the list of ideas as you brainstormed, and put those into terms where it’s like, okay, now I can go out and search for this, like freelance writer or something, just taking that as an example.


Tracey: Who writes science articles, so go ahead and look at that and see what’s out there. Take a look and see if you can get hooked in. This is important, too, get plugged into some communities where you can actually start having a chat with folks. A lot of people are afraid of this because they think, oh, why would they want to talk to me if I’m gonna potentially be a competitor of theirs? People are generally pretty open, and they generally really want to help that’s what I find and it’s been my experience.

ANTHONY: Same here.

Tracey: So I would say if you’re really serious, and you really want to start a side business get plugged in as soon as you can into some communities where there are folks there that are further down the road, specifically, in the areas that you want to be working in. So if you’re interested in doing like freelance writing there’s tons of communities out there for that. See if you can get out there. Start asking questions. Start developing relationships with people, and find out is this something that really is gonna work for me, or do I need to maybe pivot and try something else?

ANTHONY: Cool, so far you’ve mentioned like freelance writing and coaching. Are there any areas that sort of stand out to you as very approachable, or things that you tend to recommend more often than not in terms of the format of the side hustle?

Tracey: Oh, that’s interesting, yeah. I think when it comes down to it really just depends on how much time things are gonna take for you, so it really depends on the type of work that you’re doing, and how much time that’s gonna take, and trying to understand because that can also be the other pitfall, the other kind of issue that can crop up is really just not understanding how long certain things are gonna take, like you love to build websites, but you don’t know exactly how long it’s gonna take you you may think, okay, I’m gonna… This is kind of a classic issue, too, it’s like undercharging based on the amount of time you think it’s gonna take versus the amount of time it actually does take.

ANTHONY: Oh, yeah.

Tracey: So I would say, yeah, just try your best upfront to gather as much intel as you can around pricing, around just as much intel as you can from other folks that are in that space so that you, actually, you’re getting paid what you’re expecting to get paid for the work that you’re putting in, so, yeah, in terms of service based businesses it can be tricky, especially, if you’re talking about coaching it can be tricky as well it’s like, oh, I’m not… At the end of this I’m not delivering like a tangible result like they’re not gonna have a logo, or branding work, or a written…

ANTHONY: Work as a content, yeah.

Tracey: Yeah, so how do I put a price on that? There’s information out there and I would say you have to start somewhere, so you’re not gonna get it right, necessarily, out of the starting gate, but I think it’s really just a matter of being honest with yourself as far as how much time you want to put in, and trying to get the best I would say most accurate pricing as you can based on what you find out in your research.

ANTHONY: Yeah, I totally agree with you. I have many friends and colleagues who have started businesses or started freelance work, and that’s a total recurring theme that everyone undercharges when they start out, yeah?

Tracey: Yeah, that’s definitely what I’ve seen.

ANTHONY: It feels like it’s a psychological barrier like folks are afraid to charge more, and maybe, I don’t know, maybe get rejected. I don’t know what the fear is, and I think you can confidently put a price in your head, and charge like either 150 or 125% of what you are thinking, and it will probably still be undercharging.

Tracey: Yeah, and you’re right, and you just hit on a really great point, too, is I think when we have been employees for most of our lives it can be really hard to get out there, and name that price for ourselves, and advocate for ourselves and negotiate for ourselves. It’s really difficult, especially, for those of us like myself who has never really… I will admit this I’ve never even negotiated my salary, so that was definitely something that I had to get over, and I know that a lot of folks are in the same place, so definitely I’m with you on that, it’s not necessarily easy.

ANTHONY: I think another psychological barrier folks may need help getting over is the fear that they’re not an expert, or they don’t have enough authority to do this, and I think I’ve read somewhere that, I don’t know if you heard of this, but, sometimes, you just need to be one chapter ahead of the person you’re helping, and you’re still helping them, you know?

Tracey: Yep, yep, I think there’s a second kind of component to that, and it’s that you should be continuing to learn, and develop yourself, so that as they develop you’re developing, you stay a little bit further down the road.

ANTHONY: Yeah, folks also need to realize that there’s tiers for everything, and I’ll give you a kind of silly example from myself. I play pick-up soccer every weekend. I never played as a youth I just sort of started playing recently as a pretty middle aged guy, so, you know, but I could probably help somebody who is in a similar situation who is just a year behind me.

Tracey: Yep.

ANTHONY: How do you get started if you’ve never had any experience whatsoever? I’ve been playing a couple of years now, so I can help somebody get through that first hump where it was pretty brutal.

Tracey: Yeah, yeah, and that’s actually how I look at my coaching as well it’s like I didn’t go to business school. I don’t even, you know, like my job has been pretty far away from, you know, the, I don’t know, business end of whatever company I worked with, I mean, I’ve always been kind of several layers away in the lab kind of not even in customer facing roles, you know.


Tracey: So for me to be able to speak to somebody about starting a business I feel like I can meet them where they’re at. I can help people from basically square one because that’s what I’ve had to do.

ANTHONY: Very good, okay, so for anyone who is listening, and is like, okay, this sounds really great. I’ve always wanted to explore something on the side. I love the idea of asking five to 10 of my friends. Are there any other first steps they should take before they contact you or somebody like you to get launched on their little venture?

Tracey: Yeah, I would say these questions that I’m gonna give you right now are just as important, probably even more important, so this might even be like if that was, that little exercise I gave you, that’s probably 1A, so these questions here this is number one. So it’s important to get clarity around two things. Number one it’s why do you want the side hustle in the first place? Is it just gonna be extra money for you, or is it something more? Is it about something more for you? What do you want to get out of it? Then the second part of that is what am I willing to give to my side hustle? So in terms of time, in terms of energy because it does represent a commitment. It does represent something that’s going to need to be integrated into your life. You may have a family, and you may have all kinds of other obligations so you really need to be honest with yourself on that. So that would be part one of the exercises here, and then 1A would be that you want to reach out to five to 10 friends, and ask them the questions I gave you. Then beyond that it’s really just put the time in upfront, and do the research so that you are actually finding a side hustle that is a match for you, and what you’re looking to get from your side hustle. Nothing is gonna be perfect. You’re not gonna necessarily find like, I don’t know, the only business you’re ever gonna create like on the first shot. Most of the time, and I think a lot of folks will agree with this is it’s really an evolution, it’s a process. It’s something that once you start down the road you’ll make decisions and you’ll learn things, and information will become available to you, and you will most likely change up things a little bit down the line, so don’t get too hung up on that first idea just get out and start trying to help people, and you’ll be in good shape, but the other thing is to seek out community, and do it early, get the support, because a lot of people try and do this on their own, especially, if you don’t have a lot of other friends in community like in real life that are side hustling folks people around you might not understand. They might not get why you’re getting up so early to work on this thing, or why you’re staying home on a Friday night to work on something when everybody else is out, so you want to make sure you’ve got side hustle support for yourself.

ANTHONY: That’s a really great point you need some, yeah, a mindset, a community, a support group, whatever you want to call it for sure.

Tracey: Definitely.

ANTHONY: Okay, I’m gonna make sure to add your URL in the show notes, and that’s, but where else can folks… What’s another great way for folks to get in touch with you, or get started to work with you if they’re interested?

Tracey: Yeah, so two different things. Side Hustle Success Lab is my Facebook group, and, basically, it’s very action-oriented, so I run monthly challenges in there for side hustlers who are wanting to learn some new skills, or just wanting to maybe build their network. It’s just all kinds of very like action-oriented stuff happening there, so that’s, and then the second thing is I have a daily Alexa flash briefing called Side Hustle Success Minute, and you can find out all about that at

ANTHONY: Cool, and I’ll make sure that our editor puts that all in the show notes.

Tracey: Cool.

ANTHONY: Tracey, thank you so much for jumping on. This was kind of a fun conversation. I love your approach, it’s a very smart approach. I think it’s really worth listening to.

Tracey: Thank you so much, I appreciate you having me on.

ANTHONY: All right, everyone else, make sure to rate, review and subscribe, and go to to join our email list, otherwise, we’ll talk again next time, take care.